Perspectives - Vol 4. No. 4 - Where Do Offenders And Perpetrators Fit In The Community?Allegro, et. al. Updated: Nov 1st 1999 Recently, the topic of offenders and perpetrators, and their place within the mental health community was discussed among several members, including myself, within the forums of Our Community. Here are some exerpts of the different opinions aired by various members. All opinions stated are not necessarily a reflection on the beliefs of the staff and its affiliates. I at first had decided to refrain from copying the more volitile opinions, but after further reflection, I decided their views were important, as they also represented a cross-section of beliefs from within the community.... {The views reflected below represent discussions that took place between July 27, 1999 and August 18, 1999. The names of the individuals in the discussion have been omitted.} 1) Opinion from layman point of view regarding acceptance of Perps within the MH community. Beliefs that all people are people and deserving equal treatment. If we dont help the offender, we ourselves are guilty and responsible for creating new victims...
By <---> Offenders have often been shown to be victims who have not received help and are acting out the offender's role in an attempt to understand what happened to them. Some offenders choose not to be helped. My son nicknamed them 'Predators'. They are the ones that we watch for to make sure others are protected from them. Some who have been victims cause triggers in other victims while they go through the process of healing. This is why has been thoughtful enough to put the red x on to warn us that it could be dangerous. Offenders need healing, but are often ostracized for their crimes. They are compulsive in many cases and unable to control their thoughts which terrorize them even when they don't act on them. Some are able to be helped, but never ask for help. Some are able to be helped, but relapse when the stigma is too strong. Some are able to be helped and go on to better lives. Some are unable to be helped because they believe that by doing the things they've done they don't deserve to be helped. Some are unable to be helped because they won't believe they can be helped. Some are unable to be helped because they are afraid that being where there are people who would try to help them would tempt them to relapse and they think they might be able to control it as long as they aren't tempted again. I took most of this information from articles about abnormal psychology nearly twenty-five years ago. Some of it is updated because I was interested in the subject. But when it comes right down to it, the question is whether the offender is willing to change and allows himself/herself to be helped. And isn't that the same situation as the victim? Some of us feel we are vulnerable because others can hurt us. Some of us feel we are vulnerable because we could hurt others. Pain may come in different colors, but it is still pain. --
By <-----------> 2) Opinion from layman point of view regarding acceptance, yet separation and/or exclusion of Perps from the MH community. "separate yet equal," if you will. My own belief is that offenders are people just like anyone else. More often than not, their disorder is a learned condition, and they somehow missed out on getting help for this disorder all of their lives. Specifically, pedophiles are considered the scum of the earth. Even among prison inmates, pedophiles are the lowest class, sub-human, even. I don't empathize much with the plight of the pedophile. But I feel that continuing to just ostrisize and hate the pedophile is not going to rid the world of this disorder. I believe that until we take on pedophilia like we have drug addiction, children will continue to be violated, even murdered, to satisfy the needs of the pedophile On the flip-side of this issue, after discussing this topic with my pdoc, he tells me that even via the internet the pedophile has the opportunity to abuse and harm. An environment such as offers many opportunities for the pedophile to get into the mind of victims, or lure victims into his/her mind. This condition is more than simply a sexual or sensual connection. It is deeply psychological. Pedophiles generally have decieved themselves as well as others into some dangerous thinking. They know just how far to push and at what point they may gain access to places within people's psyche. For everyone that comes to , this place must be safe from further psychological abuse.
By <-------------> In this society, what makes a pedophile different from a whore? Or a murderer from a suicide? I think in all cases, people who cross other's boundaries, have to be treated differently than those who only hurt themselves; the drug dealers that would hang out at the school are different from the alcoholics and an alcoholic who gets fired from his job for poor performance is different (for me) from one who gets behind the wheel and kills others in an automobile accident. I think it's about personal choices and responsibility.
By <-----------> 4) Opinion that Perps are already successfully mingling within community, and are even supportive and beneficial to the environment. Why this is successful, and how it benefits all parties. When I was a child, between the ages of 10 and 12, my father decided my brothers needed to be initiated into the life and times of the sexual revolution. They were between the ages (the youngest 5-7 and the middle7-9). I was to be the girl they were trained on. My father abused me for many years before and after this intercession with my brothers. Thankfully we only had to go there every other weekend. I finally ran away from home as a teenager. That is when my brothers decided to tell what I had done to them. Having just been through a horrid incident with my father and having him threaten my life if I ever told, and believing whole heartedly that he would do it, I never straightened out the truth. I think my brothers probably had the same fear as I did which is why they blamed only me. And to them I was just as much a perpetrator as he was anyway. .... What came of my running away, was, rather than get the help I needed to get through all of the abuse that had been handed to me in my life, to be treated like a pedophile. I never initiated anything, never liked it, cried as many tears as they did over what was happening, .... I had to go to court as a juvenile delinquent and be accused of being a pedophile. On top of that I had to admit I was because we were all too scared to admit that it was my dad. I was sentenced to serve time in a treatment center for juvenile pedophiles. I underwent tons of various treatment all geared at making me realize how wrong my life decisions were and trying to rid me of my pathological behaviors....... You can't imagine how this "treatment" affected me. It was just as damaging as if I were being abused all over again. I know it helped with my sexual dysfunction (scared to have sex because it had basically been ingrained in me that all sex was wrong and bad in treatement). It took me a long time with therapy afterwards to overcome this. ... My brothers still won't admit today that it was my dad and not me. My mother and all of my relatives despise {me}for "what I did.... I am the only one now who will say that it was my father and not me, but no one will listen now and no one will let me be with their children alone because of what I am supposed to be which I never was. Pedophilia is an awful horrible thing, I know, I suffered from my fathers abuse in more than one way. And what is ironic is that the one who needed the treatment, him, never got it, while I endured so much. So my question is this, how many of you believe I earned that title as offender, and how many believe that life is one fucked up train ride and we are all just along for the ride? ....
By Anonymous I think this topic has a lot to do with the perception of the person who stands behind the label or issue that others use to define him/her. Pedophilia is a striking example of this. What I mean is that if a person were to say "Hi, I'm Bob, and I'm a pedophile coming to this forum looking for support" ... I can only imagine the stream of outcry against "Bob" because Bob makes himself known by his offense right off the bat. If the same guy, "Bob" were to come into the forums and get to be known as the fellow looking for help for his "problems", without knowing the problem specifically, he'd most likely be welcomed and receive warm support. He'd still be the same guy, though ... Bob, the pedophile looking for support (when I say "support", I'm implying positive healing support, not condoning support for his offenses).  You see, not all pedophiles are the guys who hear about in the news who are really lost in their illness and are truly predators. The majority of pedophiles are those who have lots of ideation about child sexual relationships, control of children, etc .. and they may or may not act on these thoughts. A similar analogy is alcoholism. The skid-row wino is an extreme form, but the majority of those with alcoholism are relatively high-functioning people who blend in well with their peers. Certainly some alcoholics are capable of manipulating others, controlling others, and getting into extremely dangerous situations (driving drunk, looking after kids while drunk, luring kids into hiding their stash, etc) .. and certainly those people need help and support FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE PREPARED TO DEAL WITH THIS POPULATION (not from just anyone). Even more certainly, some alcoholics will NOT seek or accept help, no matter how dangerous or problematic their drinking gets. They need still need help, but the form of help will be different from someone who WANTS help (ie., prison vs. counselling). As for pedophilia, I agree with <---------> and her therapist in that not just anyone should offer "help" to people with this problem, simply because the spectrum of illness is so broad .. and because the pedophiles who are really enmeshed in their illness ARE dangerous, manipulative, and need professional treatment (regardless of willingness). However, what I do not hear people acknowledging is that there are MANY people who would be labelled pedophiles who have ideation plus/minus pedophilic activities, and who WANT HELP, but are too shunned to receive it. ... Regardless, the societal blanket-view of all things that even remotely sound like pedophile makes for a hostile environment that promotes secrecacy and hiding for these people. Outrage at online abuse and pedophilia is entirely appropriate. Outrage directed at a person who wants help and is actively seeking help for this problem is not appropriate (I'm not saying "don't be angry", I saying don't make a bad situation worse by forcing such people into hiding). Finally, the victim in childhood may very well be the pedophile in adulthood ... they got the way they are for a reason. If they want help, they deserve all the support they can get. If they do not want help, they deserve all the help society has to offer (courts, prison, etc) to make them stop, protect the public, and hopefully let them get into a frame of mind where they will accept help eventually. It's the same with any disorder that leads to one person harming another (and many disorders have that potential for harm .. alcoholism, depression, psychosis, DID, etc, etc, etc).
By <-----------> I read some of the things you said (and others) about perps. At first I was like, Wha-wha-WHAT??? But then, the more I read, it started to sink in that perps are people who need help. I need therapy to undo the damage done to me and to learn how to live with it in a way that doesnt destroy me. However, that doesnt mean that perps dont need the same. I see my father differently after reading what you've said. For the first time, I'm able to see a glimpse of his humanity. It doesnt mean that what he did is ok. He's still a sick f***. BUT he's no longer JUST a monster. It's really weird. I still hate what he did to me. I still think he's an inept failure. I dont have any desire to talk to him. Yet...I see his pathetic power-play on children as an act by somone who is mentally ill. I dont forgive him, I dont think I have to. It's not like he had no control, he was just too sick, uncaring and stupid. I dont know how to describe it, but I feel a little better. All I can say is, thank you. I am most grateful
By <---------> Let me clue you in to something. Pedophiles, murderers, rapists, stalkers, child-beaters, and other people you don't want marrying your daughters, ALREADY COME HERE! They come here for the exact same reasons that everyone else does: support and connection. I say, if coming here and getting that connection helps them to not act on their disorder, COME ON IN! As we have seen with the posts of Anon, they would have to be very careful about what exactly they post. They could very well be putting themselves within firing range. But does that mean we should advertize to perps and offenders to come here? Maybe yes, maybe no. Whatever the case, maybe having an environment where victims get to confront abusers would be healthy for everyone.
By <---------> I agree with <-----------> that help needs to be made available for sex offenders just as it is for the victims. While it may not be appropriate for them to be put in the samae room, I do believe that should make a separate room for offenders so they have a place to seek help too. That way victims dont have to enter the room if they dont wish to and both parties can have assistance available to them. I dont believe either party should be shunned or shut out altogether.
By <---------------> .....Sex offenders have just as much right to treatment and help as anyone else...but certainly more right to it than people with your warped way of thinking!! I say, STOP SEXUAL ABUSE NOW!!! HELP ABUSERS SO THEY DONT RE-OFFEND!! OTHERWISE SIT BY AND WATCH OUR CHILDREN AND THEIR CHILDREN ABUSED TILL THE END OF TIME!!! but, hey! If thats what you want to see...other kids experiencing the pain you talk about...then by all means...keep up with the SICKO attitude!! Maybe its that, just because you have to go through the pain, you want everyone else to as well! Food for thought...
<-------------> I think a site within would be a good advancement for support of offenders. Having run into one on and continuing chat with him I have found it to be healing for me. He has admitted abuse and criticism from other members once he has "confessed" to his disorder, so a place where they can gain support from each other would be good. After all, they are ill too.
By Anonymous It's not sick. Mental Health Network is supposed to help people who are sick. They are SICK and should be allowed the help and support they need. You would have the choice to join that chat room like you do the others. I say WHY NOT? We get help and support and we also do sick things (cut ourselves to pieces, overdose, hurt children, hurt our families, sexually mutilate ourselves etc.) It would be a most brave thing to do and I support the idea.
By Anonymous. For your misguided information, you are basing your comments on emotion, not "fact"...and heresay, not "proven theory". I can send you many journal articles summarising that sex offenders CAN be effectively treated!! But you have to WANT to give them a chance at recovery, not "bash" them as you say I'm doing to you! Also for your information, I am not a sexual offender, I just am happy to be able to stay broad-minded enough to give offenders a chance at a life that you obviously so sadly lack yourself!! I take this stance in order to help children and stop sexual abuse through help for offenders! It's YOUR attitude that is contributing to ongoing child abuse because offenders are gonna just keep on offending cause people like YOU interfere with them getting help with their problem. ....Can you live with the shame and guilt of being responsible for helping offenders continue to abuse more of the kids you claim to protect, but obviously dont give a s*** about??? THINK ON THAT!!! Statistics also show that between 76% and 84% of sexual abuse victims become sexual abuse offenders...so, in all likelyhood, YOU are one of those self-hating pedophiles you condemn! They say it is those who speak loudest who are the worst offenders!! Also interesting are the statistics that the largest proportion of sexual abusers are women! There are three main steps in the recovery of any illness including pedophilia: - denial
- anger
- acceptance
Hopefully you'll reach the third step soon before you drive us all CRAZY!!!
<---------> I've been reading up on the goings on here and just wanted to clear up some points from a psychology student's point of view. It is reported in the most recent studies that the group of persons most likely to commit sexual offenses are heterosexual women, despite popular belief and stigma that it is homosexual men (which are the least likely to commit such offenses). Studies have also found that the larger majority of sexual abuse victims do become abusers later in life, but that one is more commonly known. It is also reported in a variety of articles that sexual offenders can be treated and helped and many indeed have been. Success rates of offenders who have seeked help has been reported at ranging from 59%-83% (more successful in men than women). I just thought it fair to present these findings in light of previous debate over the issues of facts vs stigma.
By <----------------> I received this through an e-mail disscussion group I belong to. I thought people here would find it interesting........Forgiveness is your decision not to allow the abuser to continue to control you beyond your abusive experience......
<---------------> The Perps are scum opinion... (in response to a post asking about support websites for offenders.) I think that this is one of the sickest things I have heard in a long time. I come here to chat with people who have and are expereincing some of the same things as myself. I find it offensive to think that there would be support given here to sexual prediters. I was sexually abused for many years and to this day I am still trying to mend the pain that my abuser graciously thrusted upon me. It is very hard to talk about these issues and problems to begin with but having Abusers around would only inhibit the already so hard healing process. I have no sympathy for these dirtbags nor do I feel that their illness can be fixed. Once a sexual Prediter ALWAYS one
By Anonymous Your probably a sex offender thats why you felt the need to try and bash my opinion. If your not then You should open that big mouth up and protect the rights of the children, NOT the sick bastards that want to or have hurt them. These sick people should be kept in prison or killed for all I care. As for my sicko attitude What about yours, at least mine is based on fact. Studies have PROVEN that sex offenders CAN NOT be successfully Treated. They can't be fixed. Your sicko attitude was just to bash another persons opinion of proven facts. If you don't like my opinion that's fine this is America but there is no need for a vicious unwarranted attack. And as far as your little food for thought, get a life. If you were abused as a child then you should be aware of some of the anger that a person goes through on the road to recovery and not be attacking them. Think on that one.
By Anonymous WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT YOU WALKING MORON, YOUR STATS ARE TOTALLY OFF BASE. THATS PROBABLY BECAUSE YOU CARE MORE ABOUT trying TO BASH SOMEONE. YOU ARE A SICK B****** TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I DONT FEEL THAT SEXUAL OFFENDERS SHOULD BE GIVEN PROVEN ILL EFFECTIVE TREATMENT THAT SOME HOW I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT THESE SICK BASTARDS DO. BUT I KNOW NOW THAT YOU ARE A PERSON OF VERY LITTLE INTELLIGENCE AND WORTH. YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MATTER. SO THINK WHAT YOU WILL, IT MAKES NO DIFFERANCE. YOUR NOT WORTH MY TIME AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE HUMORNG YOU ANYMORE. BYE SICKO
By Anonymous I have a book called "Savage Spawn" which talks about sociopathic children, and it explains that sort of criminal mentality very well. Apparently, they "know", in an intellectual sense, that what they are doing is wrong according to established rules, but they have, literally, NO empathetic feelings, and really have few feelings at all except for anger and pleasure. They are well aware of the extent of their crimes - they just don't care.
By <---------> Reference:
Allegro and others. (1999). Where Do Offenders And Perpetrators Fit In The Community?. [Online]. Perspectives. [1999, November 1]. | 
